What are you responsible for at Minima?
Jon: “I am the CMO (Chief Marketing Officer) and responsible for the interface between the company and the public. However, I’m also heavily involved in operations, strategy and all of the go-to-market components over and above the interface of marketing.
Day-to-day is split into various different things. I probably spend 20% of my time in constructing strategic approaches and liaising with Hugo (CEO of Minima). I spend another 20% of my time in the future-scoping the trajectory of node count and coins. Because I am in an opposite timezone to many of the team, I spend around 20% of my time monitoring our Social Media Feeds, making sure that the sentiment is good, and overseeing support tickets. Another 20% is spent on liaising with the tech team and the last 20% of my time I spend on marketing material and comments for outbound communications.”
Which part do you enjoy most?
Jon: “The part I enjoy most is solving really complicated multi-dimensional challenges. Bringing something to market that no one has ever seen before is complicated. So you are trying to explain things to people where there is a conceptual barrier because it’s new. There is also a challenge arising from being a decentralized company where everyone is somewhere else. It’s also complex in terms of timeframes because there are constantly moving targets in terms of what needs to be built and amended. Then PR activities, exchange listings, launches….And then there is also a legal side, a regulatory side… I enjoy being involved in things that have multiple dimensions.”
Which three words would you pick to describe Minima and why?
Jon: “There are four actually. Collaboration, participation, empowerment, and accountability. These are the values of Minima. Ultimately though, Minima is all about empowering freedom.”
You have been involved since the very early days of the internet in the cypherpunk movement. How is that space different now than from when you got first started and how do you feel about it?
Jon: “In terms of where we started to where we’ve got to, one of the most striking realities is that there are a lot more people involved now. From initial conversations amongst a few hundred people globally, I remember the growth to around 2000 people which was seen as significant at the time. Another observation is the sheer misinterpretation of what was originally trying to be achieved. This is apparent in the modern usage of the term ‘decentralization’, how DLT is interpreted to work, and even what Bitcoin was meant to be versus what it actually is today.
In the early days it was about citizen empowerment…now it seems to be more about “stacking sats”. Mutations have happened, but that happens with all idealogy. At the end of the day, that’s the rich tapestry of diverse opinions. Personally, as a freedom of thought advocate, I’m kind of happy that people have taken these things in the way they want, but I am even happier that I am involved in something that’ll address what was meant in the first place.”
Of course, you were then also around during the early days of Bitcoin, did you foresee that we would eventually end up where we are?
Jon: “Yes. If you create a competitive structure, there are going to be winners and a losers. Ideologically, that goes against the equality and fairness of what some of the original approaches were about. I don’t have anything against competition, but when you’re trying to create a decentralized protocol then the starting point surely needs to be that everyone runs exactly the same version. What is possible for one, should be possible for all — at least in my opinion.”
It appears you are more on the esoteric, philosophical side of decentralization arguments. How did you get to that point?
Jon: “My starting point was privacy and citizen rights. I’ve been interested in that since my dad showed me how to use the internet — way before the Worldwide Web. One of my first instincts was that the most valuable information was likely to be the most private information. And if the most private information is so valuable, what lengths would controlling powers go to leverage it? The incentive would arguably be to take as much information as possible from people and turn it into a business? I innately felt this was going to become a major issue. Over the years, my feeling was increasingly justified and I eventually wrote a chapter in my book ’28 Thoughts On Digital Revolution’ about it. For me, it’s just unbelievable that we care more about red and green candles than what information we’re unconsciously providing to social media platforms. As David Suzuki said “We’re in a giant car heading towards a brick wall and everyone’s arguing over where they’re going to sit”. As a human, why would we prioritize anything more than human freedoms? Surely the final form for humanity is to be free?’”
What are the biggest counterarguments you get when arguing for decentralization and what’s your reaction to them?
Jon: “The biggest counterargument against decentralization is control. This manifests as censorship and limitation. At the end of the day if you want to make sure people comply with your agenda, and you want to ensure you remain in control; then decentralization is a nightmare. To accept decentralization is to forgo the greed that comes with limiting and leveraging other people's experiences and information. However, with decentralization, one needs to be fully aware of the associated risks (as I mentioned in this interview), and to give educational guidance so people understand them. Of course, we also need to be careful not to discount the ‘dark alleyways’ that are apparent in the centralized networks. The price paid for being inside a free service where you are the product, a battery that’s powering an elite superpower, is significant.”
What would you advise anyone (regardless of background) when they consider changing to work in crypto/blockchain/web3?
Jon: “My advice would be to do your own research and start from an historical perspective. My piece entitled ‘In Pursuit Of Human Freedom’ contains a number of links that people may enjoy investigating. Another piece of advice would be to look deeper into why you find this area interesting. Is it about financial gain? Is it something more fundamental? What resonates with you the most about this space?”
Outside of Bitcoin and Minima, have you touched other cryptocurrencies and DeFi protocols? Why/Why not?
Jon: “As I’ve been involved since the start, I’ve had the opportunity to investigate many currencies and protocols. I’m not a day trader (anymore) so it’s less of a regular occurrence to spend hours staring at exchanges. In terms of DeFi, I’m continually amazed at what passes as decentralized financial systems…but I try not to negate the hard work that many people have put into their versions of what is possible. I’m dismayed by the rug-pulls and ponzi schemes. These give crypto a bad reputation and there’s so much more positive potential in this space.”
How do you stay on top of what’s going on in the markets and current affairs?
Jon: “I track hundreds of news feeds from all over the world, every day. I like to keep a handle on what’s happening and I enjoy reviewing contrasting opinions so I can get a balanced view. I tend to spend less time with current affairs because I have an inherent distrust of fake news and the agenda of faceless individuals controlling populations by limiting and manipulating the information we have access to. I went deeper into this point in my 2013 TED talk.”
Any favorite quotes?
Jon: “My favourite quote is by Viktor Frankl, an Austrian neurologist, psychologist, and Holocaust survivor who said, ‘Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.’
For me, there isn’t a more resonant quote than that.”
Most frequently used emoji/gif/discord sticker?
Jon: “2D text can be inelegant as a communication media. The risk of misinterpretation is high. We sometimes mean something totally different than how it comes across. Due to that, I tend to pepper what I write with smiley faces, thumbs up and prayer hands but hopefully not in a trivial way! I’m hoping that the receiver can interpret what I’m saying as coming from a place of consistent respect. My discord gif is a Mandlebrot set as I’m obsessed with fractals. I was close to using a Buddhabrot as I find that rendering insanely beautiful :)”
